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Thread: Bushfire Eco catastrophe

  1. #61
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    Default Re: Bushfire Eco catastrophe

    A couple of press cartoons to sustain you.

    barners.jpg

    pope.jpg

    A call to action
    From your chair
    Is empty while
    You're sitting there.
    - Bummer Shave

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  3. #62
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    Default Re: Bushfire Eco catastrophe

    The denialist mindset is extraordinary. You can see how conspiracy theorists inflate their sense of self-worth by believing bullshit and making themselves allergic to reality. If they win office they can use the trappings of power, be it the mayoralty of Kangaroo Island or the US Presidency to block out evidence. But the behaviour of CO2 remains the same regardless of your conspiracy theory.

    He called climate protests a "green-left con job" and said his critics are taking the position that "you're not allowed to have an opinion", which kind of sums it up. I can imagine him in Year 8 science class, telling the teacher "In my opinion water is not made up of hydrogen and oxygen.That electrolysis experiment you showed us is a green-left con-job created by the teachers' union".

    Now, even when the evidence is literally burning all around him, he rejects it.


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  5. #63
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    Default Re: Bushfire Eco catastrophe

    Quote stylofone said View Post
    The denialist mindset is extraordinary. You can see how conspiracy theorists inflate their sense of self-worth by believing bullshit and making themselves allergic to reality. If they win office they can use the trappings of power, be it the mayoralty of Kangaroo Island or the US Presidency to block out evidence. But the behaviour of CO2 remains the same regardless of your conspiracy theory.

    He called climate protests a "green-left con job" and said his critics are taking the position that "you're not allowed to have an opinion", which kind of sums it up. I can imagine him in Year 8 science class, telling the teacher "In my opinion water is not made up of hydrogen and oxygen.That electrolysis experiment you showed us is a green-left con-job created by the teachers' union".

    Now, even when the evidence is literally burning all around him, he rejects it.

    I wonder if Michael Pengilly has his 'opinion' with a basis in fundamentalist type religion or vested rural interest that in some quarters is totally blind to climate change and its consequences because livelihoods and sense of worth are at stake or is it both or is it something else?

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  7. #64
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    Default Re: Bushfire Eco catastrophe

    Very few of these deniers actually know anything about the science, they can only see the politics and they conflate 'climate change' with 'far left.' In situations where public figures express denialism i want the interviewer to ask what aspect of the science do they reject? At the very least, I want the interviewer to establish their level of denialism, because there are two levels.

    Conspiracy level denialism, is refutation of basic historical meteorological data. This is the level Malcolm Roberts operates on. The data has been fiddled with and the world is in fact not heating up at all, and indeed may even be cooling or at the very least is perfectly stable.

    Cause level denialism, accepts that the world is heating up but refutes the hypothesis that the heating is caused by human activity.

    It is an important distinction to make because the next question will be determined by the level of denialism being offered up but from what i've seen recently this is not really ever established. In refuting denialism in real life i've found it useful to begin by establishing the distinction because the two arguments that follow are really quite different in nature.

    We had that big blow up over Craig Kelly's denialism recently and yet is wasn't established what level of denialism he's operating on, that's lazy journalism, (although it's also possible i just missed it because i have a physical aversion to watching Craig Kelly.)
    What’s the use of a fine house if you haven’t a tolerable planet to put it on - Henry David Thoreau

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  9. #65
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    Default Re: Bushfire Eco catastrophe

    Then there's tactical obscurantism, where in the case of Scummo, you don't care about the climate argument, you are simply focused on political or economic outcomes... mollifying the denialists in your party room who have a recent history of removing leaders, and achieving economic outcomes which you believe in with a religious fervour. In this case you might not bother to put up either a cause-level or a conspiracy-level argument, just use straw men and distractions to avoid ever going there. Or maybe pick and choose from each category when it suits.

    Tribal denialism would also be in this category, where you don't really have a position on the conspiracy or the cause, because, for example, you just hate greenies.

    I think lazy journalism is out there, including misguided attempts to "put both sides of the story". In science they should ignore reporting the fringe-dwellers who have no relevance. But if politicians are elected, and they inflate the non-science of the fringe-dwellers, it's a conundrum for journalism. So Malcolm Roberts ends up being given a platform on Q & A spouting crap that would nauseate the most junior researcher on The Science Show, let alone the executive produce who decides who the guests are.

    Even a top gun like David Speers hasn't got this right IMO, his interview with Scummo was a missed opportunity.

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  11. #66
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    Default Re: Bushfire Eco catastrophe

    Quote stylofone said View Post
    Then there's tactical obscurantism, where in the case of Scummo, you don't care about the climate argument, you are simply focused on political or economic outcomes... mollifying the denialists in your party room who have a recent history of removing leaders, and achieving economic outcomes which you believe in with a religious fervour. In this case you might not bother to put up either a cause-level or a conspiracy-level argument, just use straw men and distractions to avoid ever going there. Or maybe pick and choose from each category when it suits.

    Tribal denialism would also be in this category, where you don't really have a position on the conspiracy or the cause, because, for example, you just hate greenies.

    I think lazy journalism is out there, including misguided attempts to "put both sides of the story". In science they should ignore reporting the fringe-dwellers who have no relevance. But if politicians are elected, and they inflate the non-science of the fringe-dwellers, it's a conundrum for journalism. So Malcolm Roberts ends up being given a platform on Q & A spouting crap that would nauseate the most junior researcher on The Science Show, let alone the executive produce who decides who the guests are.

    Even a top gun like David Speers hasn't got this right IMO, his interview with Scummo was a missed opportunity.
    Tribalism hits a good nail on the head. Rural or small communities can have a strong tendency to not step out of line and that is for practical survival reasons no matter what they may think in reality. This part of the country depends on everything remanding the same as it has always been, whether that is recognition LQBTI communities exist or that the weather not alter detrimentally to farming. These wishes and others are deeply held.

    A couple of weeks back our local paper; the Yorke Peninsula Country Times has a large spread about the LQBTI community living here. Some of the comments in those articles by LQBTI folk were scathing about the negative attitudes on the Peninsula. Our experience living here for a long time is that those comments are only half the truth. Not with all but an appreciable amount of the population.

    The southern end of Yorke Peninsula is separated from Kangaroo Island by water but has a similar proportional ideology.

    That the Yorke Peninsula Country Times went out of its way to report so well was something we never expected to see. We have sent our praise as have lots of others.

    Mayor Michael Pengilly may be influenced by tribalism or he may be mouthing it.

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  13. #67
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    Default Re: Bushfire Eco catastrophe

    Quote The Phantom said View Post
    I wonder if Michael Pengilly has his 'opinion' with a basis in fundamentalist type religion or vested rural interest that in some quarters is totally blind to climate change and its consequences because livelihoods and sense of worth are at stake or is it both or is it something else?
    Believe it or not, as the fires were raging on the island, he was encouraging people to keep visiting. Heard it with my own ears on the ABC whilst he was being interviewed
    Spiral out ....

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  15. #68
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    Default Re: Bushfire Eco catastrophe

    Quote nibble said View Post
    Believe it or not, as the fires were raging on the island, he was encouraging people to keep visiting. Heard it with my own ears on the ABC whilst he was being interviewed
    I did too. It struck me as odd, at the time. He was urging people to not cancel their bookings for the sake of local businesses. It makes sense now. Money and Economy is way more important than life.
    What’s the use of a fine house if you haven’t a tolerable planet to put it on - Henry David Thoreau

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  17. #69
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    Default Re: Bushfire Eco catastrophe

    Quote nibble said View Post
    Quote The Phantom said View Post
    I wonder if Michael Pengilly has his 'opinion' with a basis in fundamentalist type religion or vested rural interest that in some quarters is totally blind to climate change and its consequences because livelihoods and sense of worth are at stake or is it both or is it something else?
    Believe it or not, as the fires were raging on the island, he was encouraging people to keep visiting. Heard it with my own ears on the ABC whilst he was being interviewed
    Yes, I heard it also. At the time, I thought this guy knows more about what is going on than do I but now I consider it to be ratbag advice having proclaimed he is in the denial club. Kangaroo Island residence would be in mourning and the safety of visitors would not be assured IMO.

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  18. #70
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    Default Re: Bushfire Eco catastrophe

    Do not do to others what you do not want done to yourself.
    - Confucius (551-479 BCE)

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