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Thread: Losing God, a discussion on trying to find the fish in the merky waters

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    Question Losing God, a discussion on trying to find the fish in the merky waters

    Hello all, hope you are having a lovely day

    I was asked on an Fb creation evidence page what my position is because I argue with some of the 'evidences' (I love that word lol) that they post so you guys seem to be a good voice of reason in my life at the moment so I thought I'd share my response with y'all for discussion or feedback

    So this is what I said

    my position is I have been a young earth creationist and heavily committed christian since I was a wee child, I had, up until about a year ago, taken the gospel as gospel and not questioned it. Over this small period I have started questioning it and praying and praying and praying that The Lord will show me who he is... So far to no avail, I joined this page to learn about creation around me and all I get most of the time is nit-picked quotes and little bits of information that support creation amongst a massive plethora of information, books, studies and reports that don't. I am trying to hold on but the old fashion (and quite frankly annoying) notion of "it's complex and it seems designed so 'God dunnit'" I see as preposterous.

    Any feedback will be appreciated

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    Default Re: Losing God, a discussion on trying to find the fish in the merky waters

    Seems a reasonable response to me, Miles, although i've not had much to do with your audience. Belief in young earth theory demands a denial of evidence, i'd have thought, so i'm not sure you'll get anything very useful from a creationist page beyond 'god dunnit,' 'mysterious ways,' and 'just have faith.'

    But good luck.
    What’s the use of a fine house if you haven’t a tolerable planet to put it on - Henry David Thoreau

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    Default Re: Losing God, a discussion on trying to find the fish in the merky waters

    When I was 14 and beginning to doubt, it wasn't the so much the quality of the arguments that swayed me. It was the simple knowledge that there were other people who had gone before me in abandoning religion. Being in a religious school (Catholic in my case) and having all my famly pay at least lip service to religious dogma kept me in a bubble. But when one of my friends told me he didn't believe any of the supernatural religious stuff we'd been taught, it was a big deal for me.

    Assembling the arguments and the evidence was a longer process, albeit it a very satisfying one which brings me joy to this day.

    But if you keep being honest and speaking your mind as you have in the post you quoted, it's good.
    Last edited by stylofone; 4th November 2018 at 11:25 AM. Reason: added last line

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    Default Re: Losing God, a discussion on trying to find the fish in the merky waters

    I find it interesting to note that apologists in general appear to work on the assumption that if they can find something, anything, that they can twist in such a way that it might possibly cast doubt on some well supported science then that means the whole field is wrong and Jesus wins.

    You see it all the time, particularly in evolution, abiogenesis, cosmology and climate science.

    Thing is, they are never going to get anywhere, because that is a fundamentally wrong (and frankly dishonest) approach.

    To start with, even if somehow they found some hitherto unnoticed error which invalidated an entire field, that does not make their pet fantasy automajically correct. It simply shows current understanding wrong. They'd still need to put forward a case for another interpretation of the available data.

    Secondly, instead of attempting to tear down accepted science from the inside they need to be building their own model.

    A model which accounts for all the evidence, not just that which is convenient.

    A model which explains more than the currently accepted model, and better.

    A model which makes predictions which can be tested against reality, and produces predictions which accird to observation better than the currently accepted model.


    To be fair, attempts at such models have been made, RATE and Hydroplate for examples. Only problem is that such attempts have so far been abject flailures. That's a common problem when you start with your conclusion and then try to jam the evidence into it. Doesn't stop them having adherents to this day and doesn't stop them being continually referenced in discussions of the type the OP is referring to.

    Science validates models. What these people are doing is apologetics. And that is why they never get anywhere.
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."Philip K. Dick


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    Default Re: Losing God, a discussion on trying to find the fish in the merky waters

    Hi Miles, welcome.

    Have you wondered why creationism is so vitally important to born again Christians?

    Much ink has been spilled in its defence. Careers have been devoted to promulgating the teaching. Ken Ham, fanatic, has built a Noah's ark theme park in Kentucky which would have required some rather hefty funding.

    Why do you think that Genesis literalism must be upheld by creating the school called creationism? We can't call it science.
    "A professorship in Theology should have no place in our institution."

    Thomas Jefferson when founding his University of Virginia (in A Universe From Nothing, Lawrence Krauss)

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