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Thread: Orwellian China Under Xi Jinping

  1. #111
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    Default Re: Orwellian China Under Xi Jinping

    I think it is in the case of Uyghurs, it is more about suppressing alleged dissidents, rather than colonialism. The example of repressing the Hing Kong riots is a clearer example. I do not deny that China is being expansionist, in Africa, Asia the Pacific, and of course the South China Sea. However, tactics vary. Some funding projects are to curry influence longer term, especially to out-compete competitors. And some are outright "Colonial". As ever, China tends to play a long game, no matter what flavour of government it has. You see occasional lapses of impatience, and what colonialism there is is usually a very different style, especially if it thinks it can't get away with it. The concentration camps on its own turf are a different thing again.
    I am just uneasy about slapping labels on China's behaviours, because it creates straw men.

    Caricatures of socialist nations by the USA and some of its allies over many decades had led to disastrous foreign policy, wars, and missed opportunities. "They are all god- less, evil, Commies. The End". Rifts and even conflicts between the former Soviet Union and the PRC were totally missed, because the socialist world was seen as one homogeneous bloc, thus leading to the insanity of domino theory, brinkmanship, cold war confrontations, and so on.

    Yes, some of these states can be, were and are, dangerous. On occasion. But being blinkered by racism and an often irrational and vitriolic fear and hatred of anything even vaguely left [totally innocent of any nuances] led to bloody and often unnecessary ventures overseas and a ["cold"] civil war domestically, eg McCarthyism.
    Just stick to the idea that science tests falsifiable hypotheses to destruction.

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  3. #112
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    Default Re: Orwellian China Under Xi Jinping

    Quote Darwinsbulldog said View Post
    I think it is in the case of Uyghurs, it is more about suppressing alleged dissidents, rather than colonialism. The example of repressing the Hing Kong riots is a clearer example. I do not deny that China is being expansionist, in Africa, Asia the Pacific, and of course the South China Sea. However, tactics vary. Some funding projects are to curry influence longer term, especially to out-compete competitors. And some are outright "Colonial". As ever, China tends to play a long game, no matter what flavour of government it has. You see occasional lapses of impatience, and what colonialism there is is usually a very different style, especially if it thinks it can't get away with it. The concentration camps on its own turf are a different thing again.
    I am just uneasy about slapping labels on China's behaviours, because it creates straw men.

    Caricatures of socialist nations by the USA and some of its allies over many decades had led to disastrous foreign policy, wars, and missed opportunities. "They are all god- less, evil, Commies. The End". Rifts and even conflicts between the former Soviet Union and the PRC were totally missed, because the socialist world was seen as one homogeneous bloc, thus leading to the insanity of domino theory, brinkmanship, cold war confrontations, and so on.

    Yes, some of these states can be, were and are, dangerous. On occasion. But being blinkered by racism and an often irrational and vitriolic fear and hatred of anything even vaguely left [totally innocent of any nuances] led to bloody and often unnecessary ventures overseas and a ["cold"] civil war domestically, eg McCarthyism.
    I understand what you are saying. And yet the world can contain such unimaginable horrors that we don't want to look. Its not that it only happens in the Chinese sphere of influence, it is happening just as much in Africa and the midlde east under the tutelage in large part of the US.

    Consequentialism is not a rationale for not looking.

    Put it this way, Myanmar, under China's sphere of influence, just got away with it with widespread and systematic large scale massacres and concentration camps. So did Syria for that matter under Russia's sphere of influence.

    That is no excuse by the same token for Israel's regular massacres of thousands of civilians and children, and keeping whole populations imprisoned within ghettoes.

    Similarly the anti-indigenous genocides carried out under the US sphere of influence have been and are so grave and bloody that most look away and choose not to notice.

    Definitely the matter needs close attention and reasoned consideration by each person but the article just dissing some critiques from the US because of their unsavory characteristics and motivations doesn't do that.
    "I'm an ape, I'm an African ape and I'm proud of it, and you should be too". Richard Dawkins

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  5. #113
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    Default Re: Orwellian China Under Xi Jinping

    Until UN inspectors are able to go all over Xinjiang with no restrictions, I'll say that the accounts we hear of Beijing's and the Chinese soldiers and authorities' treatment of the Uyghur people are very plausible to me. Why doesn't China conclusively demonstrate that the stories are totally false? They scandalise China. These are alleged enormities.

    But then from my reading, my apprehension of China is that they don't care one whit about the morality of it all. China wants to look good only if it is expedient. That morality, the norms upon which international ethics are predicated, are foreign, external. Xi has stated, they have "Chinese human rights" and militates that China won't be lectured to or forced to internationalise their policy and practice in line with the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights, 1947.

    China in not benign. Their time is coming. America has perpetrated much that is seriously unconscionable, but Ronald Reagan's rhetoric of America being "The shining light on the hill" still had some veracity to it, some credibility. They are still a democracy, with individual liberties although the poor and blacks are marginalised, oppressed, kept down. America's malaise is a hydra of many heads. Trump and the Republicans are wrecking the Republic itself. There is much to lose, to destroy. What does China have in comparison, indeed?

    China didn't create a document anything like the US Constitution. They share no history with Western thought, the development of parliament and democracy, of human rights, freedom of the press, free speech. Censorship and surveillance are total.

    It is thought the coronavirus which started in Wuhan, a city of 10 million, was contracted in the huge fish market where 'wild animals' are also sold. I can only guess the expensive wild animals imported into China are eaten, game meat. Does that sound possible?
    'The biggest threat to security, to life in all its forms, is the system that drives the climate disaster.'
    In Climate Leviathan: A Political Theory of Our Planetary Future, 2018.

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