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Thread: Orwellian China Under Xi Jinping

  1. #101
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    Default Re: Orwellian China Under Xi Jinping

    I can understand, but not condone, the behaviour of Communist states with regard to religion. "Western Liberal Democracies", especially ones where there is significant religious influence in the state, are often violently anti-Communist. The USA is a prime example. Although legally a secular state, secular values have been eroded, and defacto, it often acts more like a theocracy than a secular republic.
    Therefore, there is no real "left" in the USA, just various version of the right, the dominant one at the moment being the well-funded religious right. This paranoia about the left goes beck to before the days of Mc Carthyism that plagued the US before and after WW2.
    The point is not that the Communist states are not dangerous, because mostly they are. But the rabid reaction is usually as bad, or worse, than what prompted it. Vietnam being a classic example.
    As for Thomas Hobbes, he was the advocate of good government, according to the rules of law. he was, as far as we could tell, a theist. But Leviathan was a cautionary tale about what happens to a sovereign that tries to rule by whimsy. So Hobbes was not an advocate for rule by divine right, because in fact that is rule by whimsy and not good government. Rule by divine right is rule ABOVE the law, and is hence against the social contract or covenant.
    He was NOT denying the right of sovereigns to rule by divine right or whimsy. Because to do so would probably have resulted in him losing his head. He was saying to sovereigns, if you do X, then Y will happen. If you rule by whimsy and above the law and break the social contract, chaos ["a state of nature"] will be the result, with the loss of sovereign power [and probably the execution of the monarch by rebels], and NO government OR civilised society with the rule of law. Therefore my personal rating of Hobbes as a political philosopher, and as social a reformer, is extremely high.
    He created, in effect, a flow chart for good government. Whether ruling elites actually follow his advice, is another question. Most don't, be those sovereigns elected, or appointed or whatever.
    Just stick to the idea that science tests falsifiable hypotheses to destruction.

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  3. #102
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    Default Re: Orwellian China Under Xi Jinping

    Today, Tuesday 10th December is International Human Rights Day.

    As it just so happens, also right now China is hosting its Global Lawyers' Forum. It's nothing but a ruse and a farce. Isn't the obviousness of this fact to all the lawyers in the room and the world, obvious to them? They don't care. Totally cynical, totally arrogant.The CCP certainly doesn't intend to consult lawyers from the 'free world' about the rule of law, ethics philosophy, let alone justice. They will pretend to listen. They can't and wont be coerced.

    It's hard to fathom the sinister mentality of the Chinese Central Party, which permeates through the bureaucracy down to the lowliest official, to the common people. Naturally there are brave and outspoken dissenters. Brave indeed. Comrades to those who cherish all liberties and are engaged.

    In The Narrow Corridor, the chapter The Mandate of Heaven on the history of China to today on the question of liberty, makes for depressing reading, troubling. China has been historically isolated from the social and political evolution in Europe, America and beyond and remains so today.

    Click on the image below to view the article:
    THEGUARDIAN.COM
    Protests over arbitrary detentions as China hosts global lawyers forum
    Rights advocates describe event as ‘a mockery’ and condemn human rights lawyers being ‘forcefully disappeared’
    'The biggest threat to security, to life in all its forms, is the system that drives the climate disaster.'
    In Climate Leviathan: A Political Theory of Our Planetary Future, 2018.

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  5. #103
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    Default Re: Orwellian China Under Xi Jinping


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  7. #104
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    Default Re: Orwellian China Under Xi Jinping

    The above article in News.com gives Xi's and Beijing's motives for subjugating the Uyghurs, their forced assimilation. It's to expedite Xi's imperialist Belt and Road Initiative. Urumqi is crucial to the overland Silk Road route, the 'Economic Belt.'

    Why am I not surprised at reports of the programmatic impregnation of Uyghur women by Han Chinese transported into Xinjiang en masse to occupy their homes while the men are interned, and very likely the mass executions have begun, as done in Nazi Germany? China has no history of progress in human rights and democracy. The default is barbarism. China is ruthlessly competitive, aggressive, arrogant.

    This mentality is cultural, need it be said? And Sun-Tsu's The Art of War is very pertinent to understanding China's foreign policy. It defines it.

    The masses are clueless as to what's really going on nor do they have a Western human rights perspective by which to critique the society's norms, the fiercely patriotic indoctrination, the CCP agenda and policies promulgated with propaganda and total censorship, compelled conformism ensured by total surveillance.

    This article in The GrayZone, dedicated to 'investigative journalism' would have the whole story of China's subjugation and mass internment of the Uighur people as a baseless fiction fabricated by a christian fanatic, Adrian Zenz. He wrote a book stating there will be two raptures, not just the one: Worthy to Escape: Why All Believers Will Not Be Raptured Before the Tribulation. Your typical christian, Zenz is obsessed with endtimes. He hates China because it is godless communist. He purportedly has influence in Washington.

    We've all been duped. That's everyone. Except for Ajit Singh and Max Blumenthal.

    It's no trivial matter. And why doesn't China invite UN inspection teams to the detention facilities seen on satellite imaging and to clear up the claims of mass invasion, residing in homes and impregnating the women?

    Yet I would also not be surprised if Uyghur men have gone off to fight for Al-Qaeda and 'Islamic State.'

    It's a radical article,

    Click on the image below to view the article:
    THEGRAYZONE.COM
    China detaining millions of Uyghurs? Serious problems with claims by US-backed NGO and far-right researcher ‘led by God’ against Beijing
    Claims that China has detained millions of Uyghur Muslims are based largely on two studies. A closer look at these papers reveals US government backing, absurdly shoddy methodologies, and a rapture-ready evangelical researcher named Adrian
    'The biggest threat to security, to life in all its forms, is the system that drives the climate disaster.'
    In Climate Leviathan: A Political Theory of Our Planetary Future, 2018.

  8. #105
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    Default Re: Orwellian China Under Xi Jinping


    The means of production are George Martin's - BeatleMarxism

  9. #106
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    Default Re: Orwellian China Under Xi Jinping

    Quote Strato said View Post
    The above article in News.com gives Xi's and Beijing's motives for subjugating the Uyghurs, their forced assimilation. It's to expedite Xi's imperialist Belt and Road Initiative. Urumqi is crucial to the overland Silk Road route, the 'Economic Belt.'

    Why am I not surprised at reports of the programmatic impregnation of Uyghur women by Han Chinese transported into Xinjiang en masse to occupy their homes while the men are interned, and very likely the mass executions have begun, as done in Nazi Germany? China has no history of progress in human rights and democracy. The default is barbarism. China is ruthlessly competitive, aggressive, arrogant.

    This mentality is cultural, need it be said? And Sun-Tsu's The Art of War is very pertinent to understanding China's foreign policy. It defines it.

    The masses are clueless as to what's really going on nor do they have a Western human rights perspective by which to critique the society's norms, the fiercely patriotic indoctrination, the CCP agenda and policies promulgated with propaganda and total censorship, compelled conformism ensured by total surveillance.

    This article in The GrayZone, dedicated to 'investigative journalism' would have the whole story of China's subjugation and mass internment of the Uighur people as a baseless fiction fabricated by a christian fanatic, Adrian Zenz. He wrote a book stating there will be two raptures, not just the one: Worthy to Escape: Why All Believers Will Not Be Raptured Before the Tribulation. Your typical christian, Zenz is obsessed with endtimes. He hates China because it is godless communist. He purportedly has influence in Washington.

    We've all been duped. That's everyone. Except for Ajit Singh and Max Blumenthal.

    It's no trivial matter. And why doesn't China invite UN inspection teams to the detention facilities seen on satellite imaging and to clear up the claims of mass invasion, residing in homes and impregnating the women?

    Yet I would also not be surprised if Uyghur men have gone off to fight for Al-Qaeda and 'Islamic State.'

    It's a radical article,

    Click on the image below to view the article:
    HTTPS :/ /THEGRAYZONE.COM /2019/12/21/CHINA-DETAINING-MILLIONS-UYGHURS-PROBLEMS-CLAIMS-US-NGO-RESEARCHER/
    I think we mix our messages when we republish unsupported doubts. I will have to read it in more depth, but, basically the world is generally a lot worse than we ever like to acknowledge because that would require action. So Germans didn't have to see the Holocaust and it was not publicised to the rest of the world. Ditto for the aboriginal genocide, also in South America, the Slave Trade, etc. the real brutality is hidden. So too it was in East Timor (supported by US), Cambodia (supported by Maoist CCP), North Korea supported by CCP, Burma against the Rohingya supported by CCP, Sudan supported by China and Russia, and the wars in Congo and the middle East of unspeakable brutality on an enormous scale.
    Its always easier to look away and say how could that happen.
    And our concerns may align sometimes with those of people with who are enemies of reason (twice a day a broken clock shows the correct time).

    I think what tends to happen is that those who want a big daddy but reject their own government find it far too easy to just adopt another daddy, in this case Putin and Xinping.
    "I'm an ape, I'm an African ape and I'm proud of it, and you should be too". Richard Dawkins

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  11. #107
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    Default Re: Orwellian China Under Xi Jinping

    The link went dead so I'll relink it. This is an interesting article indeed by Ajit Singh and Max Blumenthal in The Grayzone.

    I too may have been well duped about the China/Uyghur situation. China won't be allowing UN inspectors to go all over Xinjiang and into said internment camps, any time soon to establish the facts of the matter. This article scrutinises the evidence for the claim that there are one million or millions of Uyghurs in 'reeducation camps' in Xinjiang Province. It seems to pivot on claims by eight people and the campaign against China of christian crusader zealot and End-Times fanatic and author, one Adrian Zenz, well known in Washington D.C. in Republican circles and to the CIA. He has indeed been very influential, it would seem. His campaign further inclined Trump to impose sanctions on China.

    Click on the image below to view the article:
    THEGRAYZONE.COM
    China detaining millions of Uyghurs? Serious problems with claims by US-backed NGO and far-right researcher ‘led by God’ against Beijing
    Claims that China has detained millions of Uyghur Muslims are based largely on two studies. A closer look at these papers reveals US government backing, absurdly shoddy methodologies, and a rapture-ready evangelical researcher named Adrian
    'The biggest threat to security, to life in all its forms, is the system that drives the climate disaster.'
    In Climate Leviathan: A Political Theory of Our Planetary Future, 2018.

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  13. #108
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    Default Re: Orwellian China Under Xi Jinping

    It is a most disappointing article in that it gives no voice to the Uyghars themselves.
    So to summarise, the article claims that the crisis is manufactured by a couple of Americans. But that would be to ignore the Uyghar voice.
    So there should have been consideration of the World Uyghar Congress and of the Uyghar Human Rights Project just for starters.

    The Uyghar Human Rights Project also indicates that there is a propaganda blitz against issue by the Chinese CP.

    One should expect that whatever the Truth, the CCP will seek to discredit and hide it. That of course does not make it true. But the consistency and scale of reports from Uyghars themselves indicates that this repression is going on and it is being hidden.

    It is not really difficult for a repressive state to do this. Myanmar is recognised to currently be holding 130,000 Rohingya in concentration camps likened to Nazi concentration camps, with inadequate nutrition and denial of access to medical facilities. The world does nothing. It is supported by the CCP.

    There is of course push back from the Myanmar government on this, through jailing and killing of dissidents and reporters and so on.

    The point is that the policy is the same. Genocidal colonisation of an area with intent to remove, in part and then in whole, the indigenous Muslim society, considered as others.
    The practices have the same hallmarks, destruction of mosques, slow burning genocide carried out over decades with long term intent and strategic planning, and tactical efforts such as disinformation campaigns.
    To do so, they will of course support well meaning journalists to run what they perceive to be the other side of the story. But the other side is not a complete picture. There may be elements of truth to some of the issues with some of the advocates in the US. But that does not challenge the essence of the colonial problem and human rights complaints by the Uyghars themselves.

    Essentially colonisation is always a messy problem, especially when it involves an intent to totally transform a nation or geopolitical landscape into a different ethnicity, as is the case here. If one is going to run an abbatoir its going to be messy. They don't want, and don't allow, cameras.
    "I'm an ape, I'm an African ape and I'm proud of it, and you should be too". Richard Dawkins

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  15. #109
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    Default Re: Orwellian China Under Xi Jinping

    I do not see the PRC's move against Muslims to be a "colonial" /conquest measure. It is certainly inhumane and fascist, even if the details on the persecution of the Uyghars is incomplete/inaccurate.

    Socialist states that emerge as, or become totalitarian tend to remain so, in part, because of the threats capitalist nations present. The reaction of "The West" to the emergence of Communist regimes has been instantaneous and vitriolic. These threats may be at state level, where the USA etc conduct "proxy" wars against socialist states, such as in Vietnam, etc, etc. Or they may be in the form of industrial undermining state capitalism ["a MacDonald's in every city"] OR religious evangelicalism, where churches send members to "enlighten" the heathen godless communists about the sweet baby Jesus.

    I am not of course, making out that such authoritarian socialist regimes are benign victims, but something in between. Could these socialist states become more benign over time? Not likely if they are being pressured from outside by multiple means. In a very real sense, the Democratic, Liberal Westerners can share part of the blame for the continued severity of these regimes, and indeed, the awful outcomes for minorities like the
    Uyghars.
    Indeed, in many [so-called] "Western Liberal Democracies" fascist-leaning groups attempt [often successfully] to urge their governments to conduct "racial"/ethnic/religious "profiling" due to the perceived/ exaggerated threat of terrorism by Muslims, despite the fact that out of a billion or so Muslims, only a tiny minority are fundamentalist, and and even tinier minority of those militant, and a clear and present danger. True, we do not have concentration camps [yet]-at least for Muslims, but we are getting there. Especially if we can't roll back this wave of Trumpist, etc fascist wannabe movements popping up around the globe.
    Just stick to the idea that science tests falsifiable hypotheses to destruction.

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  17. #110
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    Default Re: Orwellian China Under Xi Jinping

    colonialism, the demand for Lebensraum, unfortunately underlies most genocides, as is the case here:

    Home
    About Us
    What Is the UHRP?


    The Uyghur Human Rights Project (UHRP) was founded by the Uyghur American Association (UAA) in 2004 with a supporting grant from the National Endowment for Democracy (NED). UHRP’s mission is to promote human rights and democracy for the Uyghur people, and to raise awareness of human rights abuses that occur in East Turkestan, referred to by the Chinese authorities since 1955 as the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region (XUAR). In 2016, UHRP became an independent 501(c)(3) nonprofit, tax-exempt organization.


    What Are the UHRP’s Goals?


    UHRP is a human rights research, reporting and advocacy organization. The organization focuses on promoting human rights and democracy for Uyghurs and others living in East Turkestan.


    Who Are the Uyghurs?


    Uyghurs (alternatively spelled Uighurs, Uygurs, etc.) are ethnically and culturally a Turkic people living in the areas of Central Asia commonly known as East Turkestan. The area is vast, constituting one-sixth of the total land area under the control of the People’s Republic of China. The Uyghurs have a rich cultural history going back almost 4,000 years. Before embracing Islam in tenth century, Uyghurs believed in Buddhism, Manichaeism and Nestorian Christianity. Today, Uyghurs practice a moderate form of Sufi Islam and lead predominantly secular lives.


    Background


    East Turkestan has a rich and distinctive history, enhanced by its position along the Silk Road bridging mainland China and the ancient Arabic, Persian and European cultures to the west. Since 1949, East Turkestan has become a nuclear testing ground for the Chinese military, it is home to large numbers of Chinese military and paramilitary units, and it is the site of numerous forced labor camps administered by the Chinese authorities.


    The population of approximately 23 million includes several Turkic-speaking Muslim ethnic groups, of which the Uyghurs, numbering more than 11 million, are the largest. As a result of Chinese government policies, the percentage of ethnic Chinese in East Turkestan has grown from four percent in 1949 to more than 40 percent at present, constituting some 8 million people.


    Much like Tibetans, Uyghurs in East Turkestan have struggled for cultural survival in the face of a government-supported influx of Chinese migrants, as well as harsh repression of political dissent and any expression, of their distinct identity, however lawful or peaceful.


    Reports from East Turkestan document a pattern of abuse including political imprisonment, torture, and disappearances. With only a few extremely rare exceptions, Uyghurs continue to be the only population in China consistently subjected to executions for political and religious offenses. Mosques are summarily closed and the Uyghur language is banned from use in schools. Uyghurs are subjected to compulsory unpaid labor on infrastructures, such as oil or gas lines to transfer East Turkestan’s resources to mainland China.
    "I'm an ape, I'm an African ape and I'm proud of it, and you should be too". Richard Dawkins

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